|
Barbara:
3 words: WOW! THANK YOU! Everyone reading this thread should thank you for your obviously well researched findings & data. Every naysayer of Feralstat/MA should read your findings and see that the side effects of MA are from overdosing. Veterinarians should also read your studies and see how miniscule doses of MA will control feral populations with no harmful effects. I echo the same sentiments that Kathryn41 posted just above this post. Again, I thank you for your dedicated and well-researched studies...thank you for sharing them here. I love your website! James |
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Barbara in Orlando
|
James and Katherine -
thank you for your generous comments. I suppose there's a chance that there's
a database of information not available to laypeople that would show
something different than I found - I'd certainly like to know from veterinarians
if that's the case. In a way I'm hoping that's the case because the thought
that Alley Cat Allies and Best Friends have written off Feralstat
as dangerous with the same information that I found is unimaginable. To have
a tool that could easily, quickly, and inexpensively stop the cycle of
reproduction in outdoor cats and save millions of lives - and NOT investigate
it further, taking only the word of ACC&D and a sentence from drug
manuals - that's just too upsetting to consider.
|
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Barbara in Orlando
|
Here is a link to ACC&D's
postion paper on megestrol acetate.
http://www.acc-d.org/ACCD%20docs/PPPP-Megestr... While not an endorsement, it's much more middle of the road than the statement I recall from 2 years ago. I'd also suggest looking at the presentation materials from the most recent ACC&D symposium. I was struck by few of the methods under investigation are for cats. |
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Kathryn41
|
That statement from ACC&D is
still from 2009 and is based on effective dosesof 2;5 to 5 mg per week
per cat - which is still 2 1/2 times the dosage that we use and
that has proven effective with our feral colonies.
My vet was surprised at the low dosages that we use, and our own results from our colonies prove that our lower dosages are effective for the purposes we use it - contraception. While we don't know if colony members have the side effectsunless we encounter an obviously sick animal, feral cats lives are harsh to begin with. If a colony member goes missing, I am more likely to suspect coyotes or a car than pyometra as those are far greater probabilities. There does not yet seem to be a position paper that actually discusses the situation we use for our feral colonies - and has been used for many years successfully in Europe - low dosages of about 1 mg per animal per week. It is the side effects at those dosages we need to be researching before everyone starts nay-saying its safety and effectiveness. |
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dawn
|
Hi James..Sorry I havent answered
your question as to how my kitties are but I havent been here lately..Yes
they're still all here..I went to the building dept & explained the
situation & she told me to see if I could try to keep them out of the
neighbors yard..Then she said if she got any more complaints we would have to
take it from there..I also spoke to my neighbor who I think may have
complained..I told her how I was trying to keep the cats out of her yard
& she appreciated that but she also told me SHE HATED CATS!..which isn't
good..also her sister lives rght next door to her & I assume the cats go
to her yard as well * her brother owns the house my neighbor lives in..I
figure one day they'll all get together & complain & then i'll really
have a problem..THANKS for asking..I also keep seeing you post about dsage of
the Megestrol..I give each cat it individually..i've been crushing it up
& mixing it in the food & they don't seem to mind at all but i'm
still concerned about the dosage..how would I feed each cat individually
& how much??..thank you fro all your informative info!
Dawn |
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James
|
Dawn, Thank you for the update.
I'm glad you still have the kitties. You may wish to remind your neighbor
that "hates cats" that feral colonies do keep the ecosystem in
balance for mice, rats, snakes, & other small rodents. Would your
neighbor rather have rats & mice in their home or a feral cat in their
yard? How about a snake roaming in their yard where their children play or a
feral cat in the yard catching the snakes..& remind them most ferals are
nocturnal so they won't be "bothered" by them as much in the daytime.
However, some neighbors are just downright ill hearted & nothing you say will convince them to appreciate animals...man tends to forget that animals were on this Earth before humans. As for your dosage, if it has been working for you, keep doing it..You said you have about 15 ferals--about 7 females...just try to ensure the females get the MA--it's OK if males eat it though. A liquid suspension as I've described will "coat" the food more evenly than sprinkling dry crushed MA on the food. I prefer liquid MA suspension, but remember the original FeralsStat was a powder, so if it works for you, keep doing it. The liquid suspension is what caretakers & vets at Fairchild have proven works & is easiest to dose in small amounts. The main thing we all need to remember is not to overdose. As for the ACCD statements on MA, I don't feel like ACCD or any other major organization will ever study small dosage efficacy for contraception in the manner that we all use it for simply because of economics--or rather MONEY. There is no big money in MA..it's cheap & is not patented like say Esterisol will be when it hits the market this year for dogs. You can bet if a drug does hit the market for feral cats, it will be expensive & will be patented to prevent generics for several years. There will be expensive TV ads & marketing campaigns & lots of promo material in every veterinary office in the country...Big pharmaceutical companies market "DOT COM" drugs everyday on websites like lipitor.com etc...Those TV ads during the afternoon that run ad nauseum targeting senior citizens are not free...If a feral cat contraceptive does become available, it WILL be expensive, & ACCD will have a piece of the pie as well as other big name players. I can buy 100 tablets of MA 20mg, for less than $30.00--not much money in that for the drug companies, thus the continued suppression of MA as a contraceptive & the non-existent studies to prove it works like the way we use it. It will take an independent research firm to study MA the way we use it--ACCD & Big Pharma will surely never do it. When we as caretakers try to explain the advantages of MA for feral colonies, we are usually met with opposition by people quoting the same ol' tired ACCD statement you find when you google "Feralstat" or MA. They complain that thefood is left out for other animals to eat, blah, blah...I myself have always had the feral colony lick & clean their plates--not ever leaving any doctored food for raccoons or other wild animals! I've never seen any other wild animals hanging around waiting for me to show up with food like the ferals do either. Plus, I always pick up my plates & leave no trash behind once the ferals have their medicine. At least we have access to MA now that Feralstat is gone--I'm just glad the we had Fairchild's reference to use for proper low dosing of MA for ferals. I myself dream of a simple pill that could chemically sterilize cats & dogs for life, but I know I'll never see it in my lifetime. If I do, I wouldn't be able to afford it--that's for certain. James |
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Barbara in Orlando
|
Kathryn (sorry about mis-spelling
your name earlier)- thanks for the clarification on the ACC&D statement
and reiterating the point about the dosage.
Your question about the incidence of pyometra in the general cat population is an excellent one - if you ever run across that number I'd be very interested. Barbara
Kathryn41 wrote:
That statement from ACC&D is still from 2009 and is based
on effective doses of 2;5 to 5 mg per week per cat - which is still
2 1/2 times the dosage that we use and that has proven effective
with our feral colonies.
My vet was surprised at the low dosages that we use, and our own results from our colonies prove that our lower dosages are effective for the purposes we use it - contraception. While we don't know if colony members have the side effects unless we encounter an obviously sick animal, feral cats lives are harsh to begin with. If a colony member goes missing, I am more likely to suspect coyotes or a car than pyometra as those are far greater probabilities. There does not yet seem to be a position paper that actually discusses the situation we use for our feral colonies - and has been used for many years successfully in Europe - low dosages of about 1 mg per animal per week. It is the side effects at those dosages we need to be researching before everyone starts nay-saying its safety and effectiveness. |
||||||
Barbara in Orlando
|
James -your point about the
economics of any drug is spot on. Discouraging, but absolutely correct.
James wrote:
Dawn, Thank you for the update. I'm glad you still have the
kitties. You may wish to remind your neighbor that "hates cats"
that feral colonies do keep the ecosystem in balance for mice, rats, snakes,
& other small rodents. Would your neighbor rather have rats & mice in
their home or a feral cat in their yard? How about a snake roaming in their
yard where their children play or a feral cat in the yard catching the
snakes..& remind them most ferals are nocturnal so they won't be
"bothered" by them as much in the daytime.
However, some neighbors are just downright ill hearted & nothing you say will convince them to appreciate animals...man tends to forget that animals were on this Earth before humans. As for your dosage, if it has been working for you, keep doing it..You said you have about 15 ferals--about 7 females...just try to ensure the females get the MA--it's OK if males eat it though. A liquid suspension as I've described will "coat" the food more evenly than sprinkling dry crushed MA on the food. I prefer liquid MA suspension, but remember the original FeralsStat was a powder, so if it works for you, keep doing it. The liquid suspension is what caretakers & vets at Fairchild have proven works & is easiest to dose in small amounts. The main thing we all need to remember is not to overdose. As for the ACCD statements on MA, I don't feel like ACCD or any other major organization will ever study small dosage efficacy for contraception in the manner that we all use it for simply because of economics--or rather MONEY. There is no big money in MA..it's cheap & is not patented like say Esterisol will be when it hits the market this year for dogs. You can bet if a drug does hit the market for feral cats, it will be expensive & will be patented to prevent generics for several years. There will be expensive TV ads & marketing campaigns & lots of promo material in every veterinary office in the country...Big pharmaceutical companies market "DOT COM" drugs everyday on websites like lipitor.com etc...Those TV ads during the afternoon that run ad nauseum targeting senior citizens are not free...If a feral cat contraceptive does become available, it WILL be expensive, & ACCD will have a piece of the pie as well as other big name players. I can buy 100 tablets of MA 20mg, for less than $30.00--not much money in that for the drug companies, thus the continued suppression of MA as a contraceptive & the non-existent studies to prove it works like the way we use it. It will take an independent research firm to study MA the way we use it--ACCD & Big Pharma will surely never do it. When we as caretakers try to explain the advantages of MA for feral colonies, we are usually met with opposition by people quoting the same ol' tired ACCD statement you find when you google "Feralstat" or MA. They complain that the food is left out for other animals to eat, blah, blah...I myself have always had the feral colony lick & clean their plates--not ever leaving any doctored food for raccoons or other wild animals! I've never seen any other wild animals hanging around waiting for me to show up with food like the ferals do either. Plus, I always pick up my plates & leave no trash behind once the ferals have their medicine. At least we have access to MA now that Feralstat is gone--I'm just glad the we had Fairchild's reference to use for proper low dosing of MA for ferals. I myself dream of a simple pill that could chemically sterilize cats & dogs for life, but I know I'll never see it in my lifetime. If I do, I wouldn't be able to afford it--that's for certain. James |
||||||
Kathryn41
|
Here are some interesting studies
that try to show some of the rates of certain conditions in spayed and
unspayed animals (cats and dogs). It appears that dystocea - the inability of
the animal to deliver a litter unassisted average at5.8% for cats - that is a
very risk for feral moms which lead to a painful death of the mother and the
litter. Spaying - and contraception - prevents that. Unfortunately this
summary states that there aren't any figures available on the rate of
pyometra in the general non-spayed population.
http://www.skeptvet.com/index.php... This study is really interestinghttp://www.avma.org/avmacollections/feral_cat... and involves monitored feral cat colonies in Florida. 19% of the females were pregnant when examined with a seasonal average of 47%..4% of the adult females had pyometra and were spayed or put down. |
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Barbara in Orlando
|
Thanks - I'll look those over more
carefully shortly -.4% jumped out at me from the Fla. study -- that was the #
in the Oslo study in the articles I pulled from PubMed.(1 of 244 had
pyometra.)
Kathryn41 wrote:
Here are some interesting studies that try to show some of the
rates of certain conditions in spayed and unspayed animals (cats and dogs).
It appears that dystocea - the inability of the animal to deliver a litter
unassisted average at5.8% for cats - that is a very risk for feral moms which
lead to a painful death of the mother and the litter. Spaying - and
contraception - prevents that. Unfortunately this summary states that there
aren't any figures available on the rate of pyometra in the general
non-spayed population.
http://www.skeptvet.com/index.php... This study is really interesting http://www.avma.org/avmacollections/feral_cat... and involves monitored feral cat colonies in Florida. 19% of the females were pregnant when examined with a seasonal average of 47%..4% of the adult females had pyometra and were spayed or put down. |
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Karen
United States
|
James, why would it be so terrible
for a raccoon to eat leftover food that has MA? Last night we had 4 raccoons
come for a visit -- it was actually quite comical as they tried to take the
tote that has the dry cat food. They tipped it over, rolled it, actually
tried to take it with them, but they couldn't get the lid open. I will never
hurt/trap/chase away a raccoon, but I wouldn't mind if their numbers
decreased with the aid of MA.
|
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Kathryn41
|
I would think that most colonies
wouldn't have a problem with left over medicated food. The amount given is so
small that you try to concentrate it enough in the wet food that then gets
eaten up.
My colony gets medicated food on Tuesday mornings between 6:30 and 7 am. I use one large can of catfood to mix in the megestrol. There are 11 serving dishes for food. I put their dry food down first then each dish gets a glop (about a tablespoon) of medicated food on top. The cats start to eat the medicated food right away and finish that before they eat the dry food. I take note of who is there and eating and watch to make sure all of them actually do eat. They run around from dish to dish, alert and on guard to any movement outside of the area. Once I see that all have eaten some medicated food I leave them to finish. I go back around lunch time to 'check'. There may be some dried food left but there is never any of the medicated food left. There wouldn't be any wildlife around during the day that would get to any medicated food that is left out. There are opossums, raccoons,fox, coyote and birds in the area. I do know that the birds sometimes finish up any dry food that is left but the mammals don't come out during the day so I think with careful management it is unlikely that wildlife would get any of the food. The only problem I might have is if a neighbourhood dog gets loose - they aren't allowed to be loose here - and accidentally stumbles on the dishes before the cats finish them. It hasn't happened yet but I guess it is always a possibility. |
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James
United States
|
Karen, I think you misunderstood
my post about there being left over medicated food for raccoons. I myself
have no problem with with raccoons eating medicated food dosed with MA as the
amount of MA is miniscule. I was actually pointing out that the ACCD &
other nay-sayers of MA always use this as a point to discourage the use of
Feralstat/MA. They always say that we have no control of what other animals
have access to the medicated food and that is what they complain about--that
we can't control what other animals actually eat the dosed food.
In a sense they are correct, but I was just stating that my colony of kitties always lick their plates clean, thus not leaving anything for the raccoons and possums and other wild animals. As for feeding raccoons, I myself buy a 50 lb bag of dog food each week and I don't own a single dog. I put the dog food out in my back yard for the coons & possums at night plus I keep water out for them just so they have something to eat & drink in this drought ridden area. Deer & fox love the dog food too, but the coons seem to always hog it. On a side note, raccoons are very dexterous with their hands--many times more dexterous than a human-a raccoon can feel in the bottom of a shallow stream & tell if he has a small rock or a mussel shell. A raccoon can do just about anything with their hands except pick a lock! LOL. I don't know if MA works on those animals as I never tried it, I save the medication for feral cats. I myself have a big heart and would not dream of turning any animal away that was hungry. Raccoons do provide a good nocturnal entertainment for us humans if they are trying to get at some food, plus they will eat all your table scraps--no need to waste the scraps in a garbage disposal--the coons will sure eat it. James |
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Karen
|
Hi James, it was this comment in
your post: They complain that the food is left out for other animals to eat,
blah, blah...I myself have always had the feral colony lick & clean their
plates--not ever leaving any doctored food for raccoons or other wild
animals!
And that is why I asked the question about other animals (namely coons)ingesting the MA -- what would it do to them that the PETA folks complain about doctored food being left over. |
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James
|
Karen, I really don't think the MA
would do any harm to a raccoon or any other animal that might ingest it from
leftover feral cat food. Remember MA has been given to both dogs & cats
in the past by veterinarians, thus we can only assume that it is not harmful
to possums, coons, etc. Plus, by the time the feral colony gets finished with
the doctored food, there's usually always very little, if any, food left for
the scavengers to find & eat.
The argument against MA/Feralstat was by ACCD and the leftover doctored food left for other animals was their case against the use of MA as we use it. Again, I think the ACCD is totally against MA/feralstat because there is absolutely zero mega-dollars for them (ACCD) and other powerful lobbyist groups for vets & other special interest groups who all want a piece of the cash cow when a birth control pill for cats & dogs is invented. It's kind of like these "new school" doctors that won't prescribe simple penicillin for minor ailments but instead they prescribe a more expensive "DOT COM" drug instead for $$ kickbacks from the pharmaceutical company. You never see clocks, calendars, note pads, & other advertising gimmicks in doctor or vet offices for the "old school/inexpensive" drugs--you only see them for the new expensive ones. All of us here know in our hearts that MA/Feralstat works for our purposes, it's safe, and it is inexpensive. The ACCD & naysayers will do everything they can to discourage us from saving feral colonies by using the inexpensive MA. James |
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leslie leavitt
|
|||||||
James
|
The change.org idea
is a good one, but I don't know if it would be effective as we still do not
know WHY the sellers of Feralstat stopped selling it so abruptly and they
have remained silent on this. I can only suspect the problem was perhaps the
ease of obtaining it over the phone, but again, that is strictly conjecture
on my part.
The inventors of Feralstat would best be suited to start the petition, but first they should disclose WHY they stopped selling it. Quite frankly, I am happy with my use of MA on my colony. MA by the 100 count bottle is MUCH cheaper than what I paid for Feralstat. The results are the same. The only advantage Feralstat had over MA was that it was '"easy" to get from its inventors by simply a short phone call interview. And again, this is what I myself suspect caused Feralstat to suddenly "disappear"--the ease of obtaining it. MA requires a RX from a local vet, but once you find a vet willing to prescribe it, you really don't need Feralstat anymore. If a Feralstat petition is started by its inventors, I'll gladly sign it. James |
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James
|
There is so much mis-information
out there now on MA/Feralstat. I had some free time this morning &
decided to google the word feralstat. I am amazed at the number of 'experts'
out there quoting the same old ACCD statement and then giving out false info
on what happened and why to Feralstat..
There's a site called justanswer.com where one can pay for a veterinarian to answer their questions. There are lots of feral caretakers like us that are in dire need of MA/Feralstat & they resorted to Justanswer and their experts. Some of the vets replied with honest and correct answers about MA & how to obtain it. Some of them however "sold" the buyer erroneous information and this shows the ignorance of many vets in this country when it comes to MA. http://www.justanswer.com/cat-health/644oy-us... The 30+ year experienced vet replied that Feralstat is still available as of 148 days ago. We all know Feralstat disappeared summer 2011. The expert 'vetmom4" took the $28 payment from the feral caretaker, which would have just about bought a bottle of MA, & told her any vet should be able to order Feralstat. The expert did not even mention the generic option of MA/Ovaban,& as we all know, ask a local vet about Feralstat, & most of them are clueless on what it is/was. Another look at justanswer.com & I find this "expert" Dr. Gary: http://www.justanswer.com/pet-cat/62tep-clien... He takes the money & basically quotes the same old ACCD statement and says "they" pulled Feralstat off the market--yet he cites NO STUDIES at all to prove this! http://www.justanswer.com/pet-cat/642yo-presc... In the one above, Dr. Gary again takes the money & tells the customer "The FDA" pulled Feralstat--I don't believe the FDA did this as Dr. Gary again cites no references to prove it. He does cite the same old Alley Cat/ACCD statement made while Feralstat was still on the market. It's obvious Dr. Gary is just googling Feralstat & reading the ACCD statement rather than really RESEARCHING the proven uses of MA. Another justanswer here: http://www.justanswer.com/pet-cat/5zymt-feral... This customer however does not accept the expert's first answer when the vet did not even answer the question the caretaker asked. When the customer refused payment of the answer, at least this vet did go back and reference "MA" so maybe the customer will google MA & happen upon our discussion here & find real answers. Dr. Gary harped on side effects of MA but cited no studies, plus he must be clueless that the side effects of MA are from OVERDOSING--no side effects if MA is used as we all now know & do here. Barbara here did an excellent research study herself that I wish these "expert vets" could study.(See Barbara's study several posts above this one.) It saddens me to see all these caretakers out there needing MA/feralstat & they are being misled by the veterinarian/expert field, plus they are paying good money for erroneous information. I wish they could all see this thread that all of us have so diligently stuck with to help each other out with our feral colonies. Too bad we don't have a website that could pop up in Google's first hit that could steer them all to the great information that you all have posted here. James
Judged:
1
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Yvette
Guelph, Canada
|
Hi Dawn: I feed stray cats at
well. Not sure if you do it already but I pick up cat poop in my immediate
neighbours lawns and that seems to keep them happy. I have a business beside
me and have even purchased a granular product that has kept cats away from
his garage.
|
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Karen
|
I have a question regarding flea
spot-ons. My indoor cats really hate it, and I can tell they do not feel well
for quite awhile after I put it on them. I've been researching lemongrass
extract and lemon balm extract to use as a spot-on (diluted in oil), but
there does not seem to be a consensus to its safety. That seems to be one
HUGE plus for the MA/FeralStat, it appears to kill/repel fleas. Any thoughts
on using MA for the purpose of flea prevention for my indoor cats?
|
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Tell me when this thread
is updated:
|
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Mommameow
|
I have one feral
lady who can detect the ovaban in tuna from 10 feet away! Any suggestions on
how to disguise the medicine? Most will eat it if I mix it with
friskes
tuna, but the most fertile one is giving me grief!! Thanks!! |
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Kathryn41
|
Are you making it up
into a liquid first or are you crushing the pills? When diluted into the
liquid it seems to be so diluted that none of mine seem to notice it. I use
the really mushy kind of pate so I can mix it very thoroughly. Anything with
chunks and I am just concerned that it won't be thoroughly mixed and not
everyone will get that 'trace'.
I mix one 20 mg pill with 4 ml water, then for my colony of 10 to 15 I use 1.5 ml of that, add another ml of water to make it more liquidy and then squirt that over the canned food and mix it in thoroughly. That seems to work. My missing female turned up today for the first time in 2 weeks. Her mother didn't show up today but she was there last week and may have come by later. The other three were here today. Time will tell if they are pregnant or not. |
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dawn
|
Not sure if anyone
can help but thought I would ask..I've been feeding strays at my house for
the passed 12 yrs..they have been on Feralstat & now Megestrol for 2
years so we haven't had anymore kittens..Today I recd' a violation in themail
from the town saying that i'm in violation & need to keep the cats off
my neighbors lawn..Not sure who notified the town but I don't know what to
do..I can't not feed them & i'm afraid the Humane Society will
come for them..They're like my own since some have been here for so long..Is
there anything I can do???..I think it says something about only allowing 5
cats but keeping them off others lawns..Not sure how I can do that but I have
until May 9th to think fo something..If anyone knows of something I can do
pease email me...dawnie129@yahoo.com...I was wondering what the above HOA
was..Hope someone can HELP ME
|
||||||
Mommameow
|
Thank you! I have
been crushing pills into a powder and mixing it that way... I will make a
liquid first now! Thank you very much!
Kathryn41 wrote:
Are you making it up into a liquid first or are you crushing
the pills? When diluted into the liquid it seems to be so diluted that none
of mine seem to notice it. I use the really mushy kind of pate so I can mix
it very thoroughly. Anything with chunks and I am just concerned that it
won't be thoroughly mixed and not everyone will get that 'trace'.
I mix one 20 mg pill with 4 ml water, then for my colony of 10 to 15 I use 1.5 ml of that, add another ml of water to make it more liquidy and then squirt that over the canned food and mix it in thoroughly. That seems to work. My missing female turned up today for the first time in 2 weeks. Her mother didn't show up today but she was there last week and may have come by later. The other three were here today. Time will tell if they are pregnant or not. |
||||||
Since: Jan 12
 7 |
HI James..
I posted this question to you or anyone who might know about this: about a week or so ago. I have been feeding my "herd" of 15 cats ( only the females). since late Jan. Then in Mar. the "wildest' one disappeared for nearly a month.. she is now back and has been since the 19th of april. My question to you , is How long does this medicine stay in there system? I am assuming that she is pregnant. but ofcourse won't know for another 30 some days.... Should I continue to give her the medicine,? Thanks for any help.. |
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Karen
United States
|
Dawn, I feel for
you. What is the ordinance in your town regarding feeding stray animals? If
there is one, then unfortunately you may have no choice but to allow
the Humane Society to step in and try to find homes
for these kitties. How many are you feeding? Do you have the resources
to put up cat fencing to keep these cats on your property?
|
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dawn
|
I feed about 15
cats..7 are females & are on Birth Control..The Humane Society here
is always filled & nobody will want these outside ctas & they will
never want to be inside someones home...They're used to me only..as for
fencing there is a fence up between my yard & the neighbors but they jump
it..The main issue is them wandering in their yeard..I have never in 12 yrs
had anyone complain until this neighbor who is only here for a yr or so
|
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Candace
|
Dawn, Can you go to
your town council and try to get a TNR policy instituted? I did that and even
though I have problems with one neighbor,my town has my back.
|
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 |
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Kathryn41
|
I agree with
Candace. I made a presentation to our HOA explaining what I was doing, why
TNR works and explaining about the vacuum effect if you remove the animals
from the area. I also explained about feeding contraceptive and how regular
monitoring helped to ensure the animals remained healthy and ofno
risk to people or other pets. I now have the approval of our HOA and
they have asked me to be a resource to other people in our subdivision who
are trying to cope with feral cat colonies.
Put together an action plan using printed out resource material from Alley CatAllies, from your vet and from wherever else you can find information supporting your efforts. You may also wish to point out how much it costs for animal control to do what they do, and how more effective both cost and resource wise your approach is. You may wish to talk to some of your Council representatives privately - try to find which ones own pets or cats - and get them on your side prior to making the presentation to the Council itself. You may be able to apply for some sort of 'recognized' status that exempts you from the ordinance and perhaps even get support for a TNR programme in your area. Good luck. |
||||||
dawn
|
Thanks everyone..The
females are all on Birth Control so i'm hoping that they see that i'm trying
to keep the cat population down in my area...Will be heading to the building
dept today to see what happens..THANKS AGAIN!
|
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cat corner
|
still no luck with
the vets in this area to ok the meg or ovaban , what else would anybody
suggest, maybe somebody i could contact to get this prescription.
really need your help, tried talking to the vet but no luck,really need help
here
|
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Mommameow
|
Google CatsafratRX
then call these great people!!
cat corner wrote:
still no luck with the vets in this area to ok the meg or
ovaban , what else would anybody suggest, maybe somebody i
could contact to get this prescription. really need your help,
tried talking to the vet but no luck,really need help here
|
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Candace
|
Kathhryn, Glad you
had success with your HOA. I also found Alley Cat Allies to be
helpful. Municipalities always like the money saving aspect if nothing else.
I got their attention with that and then they understood the benefits to the
cats also. I wish they cared more about the cats than the money but I will
take what we can get!
|
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cat corner
|
thanks Mommameow,
that did work, they are really good people there at catsafratRX, i did get
some 20 mg tablets but not real good with math . i have 14 feral cats so
exactly how much do they get a week, im thinking around a half a tablet(10
mg) per week,to mix with food ,is this correct or close, let me know Thanks
|
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James
|
Cat corner, 1/2 a tablet a week (10mg) for
14 cats is WAY TOO MUCH. Remember if we overdose with MA/Ovaban we are going
to end up with ferals with cancerous tumors, diabetes, etc., thus
providing feed for the naysayers of FeralStat and/or MA/Ovaban.
Improper dosing & harmful effects could be detrimental to us obtaining MA in the future, so please, please folks, let's make sure we all understand correct dosing before dosing a colony with OvaBan. If unsure, hold off dosing and postthe number of cats you have and strength of OvaBan tablets and someone here should get back to you. The correct formula has been posted several times here on the previous page or two of this thread. The CORRECT & PROPER dosage that I posted has been used by Fairchild rescue organization for over 10 years with NO harmful results. Please, please, please folks, now that many of us are able to obtain MA/Ovaban more easily, please be sure that you follow proper dosing and not overdose--follow Fairchild's Org dosing and all will be fine. It takes only a MINISCULE amount of OvaBan to treat ferals. As I stated in my previous posts, the BEST way to dose MA/Ovaban is via liquid suspension. It is NOT hard to convert the MA/Ovaban to liquid--this info is on the previous page of this thread. Also, ferals do NOT like the taste of crushed dry OvaBan sprinkled in their food--it is BEST to convert it to liquid. Remember, Feralstat contained lactose powder as a masking ingredient to mask the bad taste of the MA. Our OvaBan tablets do NOT have these masking ingredients. I will repost the CORRECT formula here for all to look over again in the post below this one since I am about out of "characters left" on this one. Also, janeyjan, I do not know how long MA stays in a cat's system, but it must not be too long since we have to dose each week.... Just hope & pray that your kitty that made the short exodus is not pregnant...feeding MA to pregnant kitties will not hurt them. For everyone here, I will post the correct dosing again below. If any of you don't understand it, by all means ask here before dosing...we sure don't want to lose the ability to get MA, but most of all, we sure don't want to harm the kitties because of overdosing. James |
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Mommameow
|
Thank you, James,
for your great information! I've tried to look up the previous posts you have
to check dosage and how to make a suspension, but my desktop computer isn't
available and my iPad has a mind of its own when I try to backtrack!!
|
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James
|
Catcorner, when I
first read your post I mistakenly replied that your dose was too much. That
was my mistake as I read it as 4 cats instead of 14--my mistake--my apology!
Hope I didn't cause confusion--anyway, look over chart above & follow dosages listed and all is well. I'm glad many of us are now able to get Ovaban to help the feral colonies.... Best wishes to all! James |
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James
|
Dawn:
Just curious as to how your dilemma with your HOA and city council went? Are the kitties safe ans still there? |
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Barbara in Orlando
|
As promised, the research I did on Megestrol
Acetate is on my websitewww.floridacatnews.com .
From the article on the homepage, 6th paragraph, click on the "research" link.( The sidebar links have to do with previously posted information.) |
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Kathryn41
|
Barbara,
This is excellent! Thank you so much. I am surprised at the high levels of MA that are being used - one cat receiving per day what my entire colony of 10 to 15 (depends on who decides to show up) receives in a week! What are the rates of pyometra occurring in a non-treated population? My friend's female cat had kittens 3 weeks ago today. A week ago today she developed pyometra (not metritis) and had to have an emergency spay. She has never received MA. I understand my vet's surprise now at the low dosages we are using for our feral populations - effective even at those low rates which work out to 1 mg per cat per week, not the 2.5 to 5 mg per day that these studies used. It sounds like the various organizations who have had problems with MA being used to treat ferals are not considering the dosage levels involved in their opposition. Anything given in large enough dosages can be problematic. Again, thank you for taking on this research. I am going to suggest my vet come back and read the recent comments posted here again. She read this site over when I first asked her if she would be willing to prescribe MA for my colony at the recommended low dosages that we use so I know she will find your work of interest. |
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ouise Catmaverick
|
Thanks, everyone who has made a
positive contribution to understanding this issue (as opposed to the
trolls who bully and flame and obfusicate the issue at hand with
political opinions). My next question is, what is the dosage for cats using
Medroxyprogesterone. I have 2.5mg pills available. And how does it compare to
MA? I understand breeders use it off label for their cats. Thanks in advance.
Louise |
||||||
James
|
Well I am glad to see that the
moderators deleted the political post a few posts above...now, back on
topic....
Louise, I am not familiar with Medroxyprogesterone acetate but I did do some googling. Try this link for more info: http://tinyurl.com/88y7qe2 I did check out fanciers.com site and they seem to list it as 2.5 - 5 MG PER CAT--this seems HIGH but again I am NOT familiar with that drug. I'd suggest contacting some show cat organizations and "fancy" cat breeders who have actually used this drug for contraception in felines before I would use it...better yet check with a "feline only" veterinarian or one experienced in small animals only. Also, if you look at this link on fanciers.com : http://tinyurl.com/87w27bv you will see a list of feline drugs and they list Medroxyprogesterone in the listat 2.5 - 5mg per cat--again, I think this may be too high. Also, in this list I seriously think that they have erroneously listed Medroxyprogesterone as a brand name of "Ovaban" along with "Depo Provera". "Depo Provera is indeed the brand name of Medroxyprogesterone. However I really think they have it totally wrong in that list in the link as being brand name of OvaBan. OvaBan as we all know is megestrol acetate and is NOT Medroxyprogesterone acetate. Again, before proceeding with any dosage of Medroxyprogesterone, I would consult my veterinarian and/or fancy cat breeder experts. Hope this helps.... James |
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Barbara in Orlando
|
I'll be happy to share what I
find. I'm embarrassed to say that struggling with Excel is taking as long as
the research itself.
On the first chart I've got the 39 studies I found on PubMed when I searched "Megestrol acetate cats". I'm proofing that and then will share it. Something interesting - the FDA has a "Veterinary Adverse Event Voluntary Reporting" area which is searchable.'Megestrol" has had a number of side effects reported, but in the 25 years the report encompassed, there were only 3 deaths, 5 mammory neoplasms, and 14 cases of diabetes. I tried to find the number quantity of Ovaban/Megace sold during that time but couldn't (to try to calculate an approximate percentage of occurance.) And there was no way of knowing if those patients had other underlying issues. |
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Kathryn
|
Interesting, Barbara
Is there any indication of what the dosage was for those side effects and for how long or how many dosages were involved to create those side effects? |
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James
|
That's great Barbara--I commend
your research & time spent on this. I too would ilike to see what dosages
were used to cause the side effects. As already outlined by Fairchild
organization, most all side effects of MA are from
overdosing--especially the mammary neoplasms.
Since Feralstat and our use of MA is very miniscule in dosage, I confidentlyfeel we have nothing to worry about while using MAon feral colonies. As long as we follow proper and sensible dosing, we'll have the same safe results that Fairchild org. has had for over 10 years. Looking forward to your study Barbara--thank you again! James |
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Annie
|
Hi,
One of the feral cats that my neighbor and I have done TNRed has been kind of a house cat for my neighbor. However my neighbor can pat him but can not hold him. The cat has been injured on one of his paw for a week and now the wound is getting really worse. My neighbor wants to take him to see a vet but has trouble to get him into a trap even though the cat has been inside her house for a week. So far we are thinking to isolate the cat in a small bathroom and use brooms to force him into a trap or cover the cat with big comforter and wrap him quickly and put him into a trap. But we hope we can give him something to make him feel sleepy or dizzy so he won't resist or become very aggressive while handling him. Any suggestions would be really appreciated. Thanks so much, Annie |
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James
|
Annie, please describe in better
detail what type of wound "is getting worse" on the paw of the cat.
Is it a bite mark or abscess perhaps from fighting with another cat? Is it
bleeding /oozing puss? Swollen foot? Is it just a limp? Do you think the leg
is broken? Does the cat go outside periodically or is it indoors all the
time?
If it is a superficial minor cut, use Betadine Scrub/Betadine solution from WalMart--if she can pet the cat, just dab the Betadine on a cotton ball, while petting the cat, try to get the Betadine soaked ball on the cat's foot. Betadine is messy like iodine--be aware. If you can't find Betadine Scrub, if all else fails, open a Betadine douche and use the packet from that.(PS--Betadine is also great for fungus/flea allergy wounds/ and mild cases of ringworm.) Many abscesses & wounds can best be cured well with "Vetericyn" from Tractor Supply--a little pricey but GREAT for wounds of all kinds--Vetericyn speeds healing by up to 60%. I've had veterinarians tell me they even use it on themselves--I have used it myself. Vetericyn should be in every pet owner's home pet-med supply. It comes in a spray bottle and looks like blue Windex--try to spray a little on the foot about 2-4 times a day. Vetericyn is safe to use and doesn't hurt eyes if you accidentally spray it in cat's eyes... Of course, all of my recommendations depends on the severity of the wound and what type it is. How did the cat get hurt? If it's just a limp, nothing puts fear in the mind of a pet owner more so than a limp! "OMG! Fluffy is limping! Call the vet!" MOST limps cure themselves in a few days...again, use common sense to diagnose the wound/limp etc..if the wound is bad enough that you think it needs vet care, then by all means proceed to try to trap the cat & get it professional help. As for tranquilizing the cat--don't do it and don't try it. Best to put on gloves, corner the cat in a small bathroom, use a comforter, pillow case, big towel, whatever and have pet taxi ready with door open to put kitty in..be prepared for battle scars... Please report back on the type of wound to the paw--is it possible to get apicture of the wound? I'll post back when I hear from you here... James |
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Annie
|
James,
Thanks so much for your quick response, help and very useful tips. Since I did not see the wound myself, I have asked my neighbor to provide any details. I honestly hope either Betadine Scrub/Betadine solution or Vetericyn would help the cat get over the wound. Thanks again, Annie |
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Karen
|
I was able to get 100 40-mg
megestrol AC for $52.99 from this site:DRUGSTORE.COM . I listed the patient as Cat Colony (plus my name)
and indicated the use was for feral feline contraception. I provided my vet's
name and phone number, and they called him and he approved the
request.
James, would you please verify for me that I am reading your recipe correctly and my math is correct. I will take this 40-mg pill, dilute it in 8 mL of distilled water so that I have 5 mg/mL of MA. I take it the goal to get each cat to ingest 0.1 mL (0.5 mg) weekly; hence 1 mL would dose 10 cats, 8 mL would dose 80 cats. Since I have on average 20 feral cats 1 pill should last 4 weeks at 2 mL per week.(Thanks in advance for your time, James.) |
||||||
James
|
Karen, you do indeed dilute ONE 40
mg MA pill in 8 ml of water. Look back at my post above and you see that
Fairchild recommends the following dosage for a COLONY of 20-23 cats is 1.6
ML TWICE A WEEK.
This 1.6 ML of the liquid suspension is PER COLONY, not per cat. Since the dose is twice a week for that number in a colony, then you will be using 3.2 ML of the liquid solution once a week, thus ONE 40 MG pill in solution will yield you 2 & 1/2 weeks of dosing (3.2ML + 3.2ML + 1.6ML = 8 ML)--again this is dosing the entire colony of 20 cats at 1.6 ml TWICE a week. Remember to spread the twice a week dosage (1.6ML) evenly among the canned food you are feeding them....the 20 cats in your colony thus will be ingesting very small amounts of the MA twice a week--the small amounts per cat is what makes the use of MA so safe--problems arise from OVERDOSAGE. Overdosage of MA is what the naysayers of Feralstat/MA/Ovaban are concerned about. Hope this clears things up. James |
||||||
Karen
|
Thank you James! Can you answer
another question -- I never had to dose the FeralStat twice in a week -- why
is the MA different? A "bonus" I have noticed with the FeralStat is
those cats do not have fleas! Lice, yes, but not 1 flea. I dosed the MA for
the first time this past weekend, and for 20 cats I used two 13-oz cans moist
food, to which I added 2 teaspoons of "Better Than Bouillon"
chicken base (because the MA is bitter)-- the cats gobbled it down, which
they never did with the FeralStat; they would eat the food with FeralStat,
but not gobble like they did this past weekend. I am sooooooo relieved to
have them back on contraceptive ... hope it wasn't too late and we still end
up with spring kittens.
|
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James
|
Karen, I am not sure why Fairchild.org recommends
the twice a week dosage of the MA, I am merely posting what Fairchild's tried
& proven record is. I am guessing that we could get by with once a week,
but then again I am not sure.
That is a good question we should though--we should email Fairchild and ask them why they recommend the twice a week dosage & Feralstat was only once a week. It's great that you have a flea free colony. I'm glad you have worked out a palatable recipe for the kitties as well with the bouillon. James |
||||||
James
|
I logged onto this site today from
my work PC--in fact I tried 3 computers and all 3 of them are not showing my
previous post above in which I cleared up the "dosage mystery" as
to why Feralstat was once a week and Fairchild recommends twice a week for
larger colonies.
Can someone post here if they can indeed see my post just above this one dated March 20, and it starts out like this: "OK...dosage mystery solved."? I myself can see that post of mine on my home PC but as I stated, on three other computers that post is not showing up. If you can indeed see that particular post, please post a reply here. James |
||||||
Karen
|
James, I do not see your post
regarding the "dosage mystery," but would really like to know the
answer. My guess: If it's dosed twice in larger colonies it will be more
evenly distributed and hopefully if a cat misses one dose it will get the
other.
|
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cat corner
|
cant seem to find a vet that would
help me with the matter of MA, is there anybody with a idea or knows of
somebody that could help in this matter, let me know, been keeping up with
this blog and need some advice
|
||||||
Karen
|
Cat Corner, try placing your order
first, list your vets name and number, and see what happens. I was able to
get 100 40-mg megestrol AC for $52.99 from this site: DRUGSTORE.COM .
I listed the patient as Cat Colony (plus my name) and indicated the use was
for feral feline contraception. I provided my vet's name and phone number,
and they called him and he approved the request.
|
||||||
James
United States
|
It seems that Topix keeps deleting
the post about why Feralstat was dosed once & MA is dosed twice, so I
will condense what I learned as to why we dose larger colonies with MA TWICE
a week--it is indeed so that we are assured that ALL the cats (female) get
the dosage--if you sure that all females get the med during feeding, then you
can safely do it only once a week like the original Feralstat.
James |
||||||
Mommameow
|
Google CatsafratRX then call these
great people, cat corner!
This forum has helped me so much! While searching for a FeralStat replacement I have had 8 feral kittens born, but I have homes lined up for several of them and I am hoping that Ovaban will help me once again stop the cycle! They don't like the flavor of the crushed pills - even in tuna - but we're working on it.... |
||||||
Since: Jan 12
7 |
Hi James,
I have run into a bit of a problem, with one of my cats. I have been feeding 14 females since the latter part of Janurary, and then on March 14th "the wild one", just left, home, and did not show up until the 19th of April. That is about a month with out any birth control...YIKES!!! My question to you is this" How long does this ferlastat or ovaban, stay in there system? --- I don't know if she has gotten bred, so can I just start giving her the "pill" lol, once again? What happens if she is bred? Would this cause her to loose any kittens that she might have ? I sure am hoping someone can give me some insight on this? Thanks for any help here.. |
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Kathryn41
|
I have had a similar problem.
Someone started disturbing the site where I feed my ferals even though it is
signed with the authority of my HOA. Two weeks ago none of the cats showed up
for the date. I re-dosed 2 days later and know that one of my 5 females did
get it but didn't see the other 4. Last week, again, none of the femals
showed up. Only 3 of the males have been showing up semi-regularly until two
days ago where 4 of the females are showing up - very nervous and skittish
about the site so I know someone or something has disturbed them there.
Tomorrow I will dose again and hope that all of them show up but there
appears to be a two week period where 4 of them probably did not get their
medication. I am curious as well how long the ovaban will stay in the system
and hope there might be some overlap.
|
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Sunday, July 1, 2018
Topix thread 06152015 posts 175 to 220
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